Questions & Answers
Without a doubt the hardest part of our “job” at CarbonCopyPRO is answering all the questions we get from people. We get literally 100 inquiries a day so we created this page with answers to common questions.
If you received a link to this page don’t feel like you were brushed off… We reserve our phone time for coaching our team.
- “What is CarbonCopyPRO?”
- “How do I succeed at CarbonCopyPRO?”
- “How would I fail at CarbonCopyPRO?”
- “Is CarbonCopyPRO a product?”
- “Why does CarbonCopyPRO sell this particular product?”
- “Why do I have to fill out an application?”
- “Can my application be rejected? What happens then?”
- “I’ve applied, now what?”
- “Is there a refund policy?”
- “Do I need to be “tech-savvy” to be successful?”
- “How much time will I need to commit to CarbonCopyPRO?”
- “How much money will I need to commit to CarbonCopyPRO?”
- “What is the difference between Direct Sales and Multi-Level Marketing?”
- “What sort of return on investment (ROI) can I expect?”
- “What does a typical CarbonCopyPRO workday look like?”
- “Can CarbonCopyPRO be used to sell other products?”
- “I saw a bad review of CarbonCopyPRO online. What was that about?”
- “How can I be sure CarbonCopyPRO is not a scam?”
- “I have $500 to my name and nothing else. Should I invest it in CarbonCopyPRO?”
- “What is CarbonCopyPRO?”
CarbonCopyPRO is a direct sales company started in 2006 by Jay Kubassek in Kansas City, KS. Jay had a background as a top-earning direct sales professional who leveraged the internet to sell a variety of products. Using a combination of social media, pay-per-click marketing, and targeted websites, Jay had created a formula for moving product that had him earning six figures monthly (net profit). Jay made a decision that the next logical step for his business was to “bottle” his process such that it could be duplicated by others. This was of course not an entirely selfless decision. By licensing his methods to others he could add a new revenue stream, add enhanced credibility to his own efforts, and ultimately position himself to be the exclusive sales channel for a company of his choosing. Ambitious as his plan may have been, it has worked. In the beginning of 2006, Jay launched CarbonCopyPRO in exclusive partnership with a leading financial education company. Within 30 days, the gross sales of the partner company had increased 400%.
That was 2 1/2 years ago as of this writing and the story is still unfolding. When CarbonCopyPRO began, Jay was already what most would consider wealthy. Of course now he is even more so but the more interesting part of the story is what CarbonCopyPRO has done for others. Now headquartered in New York City, CarbonCopyPRO has already created 6 millionaires and numerous other multiple six-figure earners. These are not “pie-in-the-sky” numbers, these are notary-validated bank statement numbers attestable under any amount of scrutiny.
So of course you are wanting to know, what is the product that CarbonCopyPRO sells and how does it sell so much of it? That is a question whose answer is treated with delicacy. We are happy to share that CarbonCopyPRO functions as the sales and marketing arm of a top-tier financial education company, founded by an ex-Wall Street investment banker and based in Texas. But that is all the information we release to non-applicants.
To apply and find out more about CarbonCopyPRO’s product partner Apply Now right here.
Frustrated? Want to know more? Consider this… By requiring you to apply before disclosing the exact products sold, CarbonCopyPRO is accomplishing two things. One, you are forced to declare a certain amount of interest and commitment before a CarbonCopyPRO representative is obliged to answer the no doubt numerous questions you will have about the product. We could refer you to abundant literature about the product but the odds say you will still want to talk to somebody and ask questions. There are not enough hours in the day for any CarbonCopyPRO member to answer the questions of all prospects so CarbonCopyPRO deliberately filters out about 80% of them by requiring an application. As a CarbonCopyPRO member writing this, I am incredibly thankful for this aspect of the business (more about this in a subsequent question).
But requiring an application before disclosing full details of the business accomplishes something else much more important. It keeps the focus on you. Moving forward with CarbonCopyPRO is not a decision to be made around product specifications or systems analysis. It is easy when considering taking life-changing action to focus on the details and avoid the larger significance of the decision. This is called “missing the forest for the trees”. There is ample documentation on the success of CarbonCopyPRO and its members to convince all but the most stubborn skeptic. “Convincing” is not the point. The “product” is not the point. You are the point. Are you ready to change? Are you ready to set new and higher goals and then work in a focused and strategic way to achieve them? Can you change your image of yourself to believe that you are worth $50,000 a month? That is $70 for every hour of your life. It takes a certain mindset to believe that you are worth $70 an hour even when you are sleeping. That is what CarbonCopyPRO is about.
Now that said, if you apply and then decide that you cannot stand behind CarbonCopyPRO’s partner product, there is a 30-day money back guarantee. Applying does not lock you into anything. But the application will ask you to define some goals for yourself, and hopefully you will lock yourself into those, with or without CarbonCopyPRO.
By plugging in to the CarbonCopyPRO system and following the systems, formulas, and scripts presented in your 30-day marketing guide. Properly executed, the 30-day marketing guide is a can’t-miss playbook for internet marketing success. There is work to be done and you will have to be the one to do it. But if you do the work the way you’re supposed to you will be successful.
There are 4 traits in people we see causing them to fail in this business. If you have a strong tendency toward one of these traits, you will be at risk of failing. They are:
1. Insistence on “Getting-Rich-Quick” or “Easy-Money”. There is a major difference between a high-growth business opportunity that monetizes quickly and a get-rich-quick scheme. Your goal should be to invest your time, money, and resources into a business that generates substantial earnings within a 3 month time frame. Come CCP members earn money faster than that but be prepared to invest 90 days of real work.
2. Unwillingness to work hard and “do what it takes”. Unless you have extensive experience in internet marketing, this business will introduce you to a whole new world. There will be a new vocabulary, new skills, a new business model, and new ways of thinking. Learning is never easy but always rewarding. Your first 90 days in this business are critical and you will want to pour yourself into it.
3. Lack of motivation or general laziness. These are difficult traits to overcome and no matter how excited you are right now unless you have disciplined habits and are organized you are at risk of fading away. We cannot stress this enough - IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AN EASY RIDE GO CALL A CAB.
4. Refusal to follow instructions. While creativity and improvisation are valuable business skills, there is no substitute for executing tried-and-true business systems, particularly when entering a new endeavor. There will plenty of room down the road to chart your own course but for the first 90 days you will need to do exactly what you are told. Even if you are successful doing it your way, we promise you will be more successful doing it our way.
- “Is CarbonCopyPRO a product?”
CarbonCopyPRO is a marketing system and business opportunity, not a standalone product. The CarbonCopyPRO marketing system could theoretically be used to sell almost anything, but that leaves too much to chance… Instead the CarbonCopyPRO system has been paired with a specific set of products to maximize revenue for marketers. The products are produced by a leading financial education company founded by an ex-Wall Street investment banker. Most CarbonCopyPRO members market both the CCP business opportunity and the financial education products.
Before launching CarbonCopyPRO the creators spent considerable time and energy investigating various products searching for one that offered the most financial upside to marketers. There were several key criteria in selecting the “perfect” product to sell via CarbonCopyPRO (these are discussed in the next question).
As a CarbonCopyPRO applicant you will be introduced to our Partner Company and walked through the Compensation Plan.
>>Click here to get started<<
CarbonCopyPRO’s Product Partner company sells a unique set of products that score high in each of 6 essential criteria required for a sustainable and profitable direct sales business.
These 6 criteria are:
- High-end Products. Simply put, unless products or services have a sufficiently high price tag there is no way to make a lot of money selling them. Most marketing businesses have this most fundamental problem - they take too long to create substantial revenues because the underlying product is cheap and too many units have to be sold.
- No “Friends and Family” Selling. This one is probably the number one reason most people choose CarbonCopyPRO over other business opportunities. It was our number one reason for sure! Having done network-marketing in the past, we absolutely refused to get involved in another business where our friends and family turned into “prospects”. This helps for multiple reasons: firstly your quality of life is better since your friends don’t feel like you’re trying to sell them, secondly you are not limited by how many people you know or how much networking you do.
- Direct Marketing Model (not MLM or Affiliate Marketing). Direct marketing means that the person that sells the product makes the commission, which means the people making the big money are the ones selling lots of product. Multi-level Marketing models tend to encourage a “sit back and collect residuals” mentality whereas Direct Marketing motivates people to sell, sell, sell.
- Residual Income. Get paid multiple times for work you do once - it is a cornerstone of nearly every valid wealth-building strategy. It is fundamental to CarbonCopyPRO’s business as well. When we said CCP is not multi-level marketing that does not mean that CCP does not pay residual income. CCP members are financially motivated to help their teams do well and do make recurring monthly income beyond just what they sell. The difference here is that CarbonCopyPRO residuals come from team members selling products where MLM residuals come from team members attracting new team members. You’ll learn more about this as you get involved in the business but trust us it’s an important distinction.
- Vast Market Potential. The internet is far and away the best way to reach vast numbers of people worldwide, so what good is selling a product that doesn’t appeal to a lot of people? CarbonCopyPRO sells services that can benefit almost anyone in the world and a phenomenal business opportunity.
- Low Overhead/No Inventory. A successful home-based business is not one where you have crates of products stuffed in your closets and you are having to make daily trips to the post-office. Our products are services and systems, not any sort of packaged goods. Any materials ship directly to your customers and there is never any inventory.
The number one reason people get involved in a home-based business is to have more control over their time. By requiring an application, we ensure that we are only dealing with serious, committed entrepreneurs.
Here’s a hint, next time somebody tells you how serious they are about making a change in their life, ask them to invest 15 minutes and $99. Tell them if after the 15 minutes they change their mind they can have the $99 back, you just want to make sure that they have at least a little money to invest and they are serious enough to delay spending it on something else for at least 15 minutes.
What will happen?
You guessed it… 9 out of 10 people will walk away. And you just kept yourself from wasting 90% of your time. The CarbonCopyPRO system is a marketing system and smart marketing means funnels and filters. You’ll learn more about funnels and filters later but simply put they mean letting the system screen out the people that aren’t serious or qualified so you can invest your energy in those who are.
Personally, we got involved in this business so we could spend more time together. The main reasons we hear from others for getting involved involve spending time with family, not having to work as much, being able to travel, being able to volunteer, and so on. What is the common denominator in all of these? Time.
That is why the CarbonCopyPRO system is designed to protect and value your time. There are filters in place to make sure you are not wasting your time with “tire kickers” and the “just curious” types.
We estimate that the required application process by itself saves us personally 30-40 hours a week of phone calls with people who have unrealistic expectations and/or are never going to take action.
Your application will be reviewed by your business coaches (us) as well as CarbonCopyPRO’s corporate team. If you answer the questions honestly you have the best shot at being approved. There is no credit or background check, the application is designed to assess your likelihood of success with the business. Criteria for approval relate to mindset, leadership, willingness to learn new skills, desire, current habits, and motivation. After you apply you will be notified in 24 hours or less as to your approval status.
If for any reason you are not approved you will be issued a full and immediate refund of the application fee with no action required on your part.
Once your application is approved you will receive a call from both the CarbonCopyPRO call center and your personal business coach. If after reading this page you still have unanswered questions, your coach will be able to answer them over the phone. Once you have applied you will be introduced in full to the CarbonCopyPRO business plan, compensation model, and the specific products sold.
Having applied and been accepted, your next action step is to purchase your Business in a Box (often referred to as a “BiB”). This can be done by logging in to www.CarbonCopyPRO.com and entering the e-mail address you used when you first visited a CCP website. Aftering entering your e-mail, scroll to the bottom of the ensuing page and click the link that says “Get your BiB now”.
The BiB is $395 and comes with training manuals, DVD’s, and access to your web-based back office. The BiB is the only thing you need to launch your CarbonCopyPRO business. You are not required to purchase anything else. Once you have logged in with your e-mail address you will see a detailed description of exactly what comes with the BiB, but suffice to say it includes all the tools you need to set up a web-based business. Your entire business infrastructure (lead tracking, marketing plan, e-mail autoresponders, websites, merchant services, a professional call center, technical support and coaching, etc.) is integrated into the CCP back office which you will have access to with your BiB.
Once you receive your BiB in the mail (via 2 day FedEx) your coach will walk you through the setup of your back office and marketing systems. Set up and configuration of your business takes 1-3 days depending on your time commitment at which point you are up and running (and selling!) Your first month is spent following the integrated 30-day Marketing Guide in conjunction with guidance from your coach.
Yes. Applicants may have their application fee refunded any time within 30 days of applying. Refunds are processed directly by CarbonCopyPRO and may be requested by following the steps outlined at http://oneyearplan.net/refundpolicy.htm
No, many CarbonCopyPRO members come into the business with limited internet skills and web-marketing experience. Though over time if you follow the CarbonCopyPRO systems you will become much more tech-savvy than you likely already are.
CarbonCopyPRO utilizes many sophisticated marketing techniques and algorithms but for the most part these processes are automated so you do not have to fully understand them to use them. Think of it as “painting by numbers”. That said, you will want to learn what it is that you are doing with CarbonCopyPRO, how it works and why it works. This knowledge will make you a better marketer and give you more credibility as a teacher and leader of others. The skills you will acquire in working your CarbonCopyPRO are the “must-have” skills of today’s marketplace so any learning curve is to be embraced.
This is entirely dependent on how much money you want to make from CarbonCopyPRO. The business is set up to reward diligence and investment of resources, most notably time. Once your system is set up and firing on all cylinders you may find that 1-2 hours a day allows you to run your business, though most top earners work their businesses at least 25 hours a week.
The first 90 days are the most critical time for your business and we recommend you be prepared to devote at least 15-20 hours a week during this time. The work can be broken into multiple daily shifts or concentrated into only a few days a week but the 15 hour threshold is essential in the beginning.
Similar to the previous question, the answer here largely hinges on how much money you want to make. Do not expect to show up with only a few hundred bucks to spend on marketing and then suddenly start raking in millions. Top earners spend tens of thousands of dollars a month to generate their hundred plus thousand dollars a month (we’ll cover Return on Investment more specifically in another question). Of course they did not start out at that level, and the great thing is that the exact same system the top earners are using is available to our team members even at a much smaller scale (remember we trained under the #1 earner in the company and are financially motivated to teach you).
Technically the minimum “required” investment is $494. That’s $99 for the application and $395 for the Business in a Box (BiB). However in reality you will have the best shot at a successful business if you are prepared to invest $2000-$3000. This will give you an initial marketing budget and position you in the compensation plan for higher commissions (up to $1000 per sale right off the bat).
Now there have been several instances where people have gotten started with only a $500 investment and used nothing but free marketing techniques (that CarbonCopyPRO teaches you) to gradually build up. It can be done and we do not discourage any serious entrepreneur from approaching it this way. Just be prepared to spend your first 3 months working hard with all revenues reinvested into marketing.
CarbonCopyPRO is a direct sales business that distinguishes itself from multi-level marketing (MLM) in a number of ways. For those who want simply to know the differences we will list some of them here. For a more in-depth discussion of multi-level marketing visit our blog post “A Eulogy for Multi-Level Marketing“.
|CarbonCopyPRO||Multi-Level Marketing (MLM)|
|$generated primarily from sale of products.
||$generated primarily from recruitment .
|Most of the sales process is automated.
||Most of the sales process is hands-on
|High-ticket items = large commissions .
||Lower-price items = lower commissions.
|No one has an advantage over anyone else.
You make what you earn.
|Those who “get in early” always have an advantage.
|No downline building.
You get paid off what you sell .
|Sales are used to pay people many levels upward
who may never sell anything themselves.
|You are discouraged from involving
your friends or family.
|Almost impossible to do without
involving friends and family.
|Professional call center helps you do your selling.
||Your “on your own”. Since you are selling your
friends and family it is expected you can do it yourself.
|Web-based business can be run
from a cell phone and a laptop.
|“Network Marketing” requires constant
interfacing with your network.
A CarbonCopyPRO member that is fully positioned in the compensation plan (M3 Master Consultant) can make as high as a 400% monthly ROI on his/her paid-advertising marketing budget. Obviously sales deriving from free marketing methods (which the internet provides in abundance - witness this blog) are infinite ROI so we’re writing here about paid internet advertising (primarily pay-per-click).
Factors which can affect this are traffic sources, skill with PPC campaigns and keyword targeting, skill on the phone, natural salesmanship, etc. The 400% number is to be aspired to and represents the monthly ROI for a CarbonCopyPRO Top Earner. Of course results may vary.
For further discussion on compensation plan positioning (and what is an M3 Master Consultant) apply with the link below.
There are four fundamental responsibilities for a CarbonCopyPRO marketer:
1. Drive web traffic
2. Support product sales
3. Follow-up with new applicants and members
4. Support your team
The first responsibility entails using both paid and free marketing tools to create exposure and leads via the internet. These activities run the gamut from administering pay-per-click ad campaigns to uploading video content. The common denominators in this part of the business are it is all done from the computer and anybody can do it with the proper training.
The second responsibility is primarily done on the phone. Some of your customers are about to spend significant amounts of money (up to $20,000 with half of that going to you) so they will want to speak to someone in person. Even with all of the automated CarbonCopyPRO systems that deliver relevant information to customers there is a comfort people need to feel before they spend that much money. These calls typically last 15-30 minutes and with up to a $10,000 commission as the payoff we all agree it is time well spent. Remember this is not “selling over the phone”. You are not calling the customer the customer is calling you. You simply answer their questions and discuss your personal experience with the products.
The third and fourth responsibilities both involve direct correspondence with CarbonCopyPRO applicants and members, usually via e-mail and sometimes via phone. Anybody can do these things and be successful with proper coaching.
In the first few months of your business you will spend the majority of your time driving traffic to build your pipeline (task 1). You will quickly start to make some sales (usually in the first few weeks) and will begin spending time on the phone (task 2). As your CarbonCopyPRO team starts to build (usually by month 3) your workload will include more support and coaching (tasks 3 and 4). After about 6 months into the business you should be spending the majority of your time on sales and coaching while the automated systems you have set up run themselves.
We hear this question a lot. While certainly the strategies, systems, and tools contained within CarbonCopyPRO could be used to sell almost anything on the internet, at present it is an exclusive product partnership. That is to say that both CarbonCopyPRO and the company whose products it represents have committed to each other not to work with other sales or product partners respectively. So the answer is no, CarbonCopyPRO members cannot presently use the system to sell other products.
Now let us tell you why that is a good thing. CarbonCopyPRO’s product partner company was chosen via an exhaustive vetting process that screened hundreds of companies and products. Of the few direct-sales products on the internet that score highly on all 6 of the required criteria for lucrative home-based enterprise (discussed above) the one that was chosen was head and shoulders above the rest in integrity and value. Once chosen, a lot of time and money was invested integrating the product into the CarbonCopyPRO system.
As a sales professional this integration is your best friend. It increases the efficiency of your marketing and sales process and eliminates duplicate work. This is very much an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” situation. In 2 years CarbonCopyPRO has created hundreds of six-figure earners selling only one set of products - it is not a formula to tamper with.
Now this is an FAQ page, not a blog, so forgive us for lapsing into our coaching mode. This last part of the answer is aimed at anyone who is thinking about combining CarbonCopyPRO with alternative products. If you are not in this camp feel free to skip to the next question.
Human beings always prefer whatever they are presently doing or thinking over whatever they might be doing or thinking. How often do we tend to do the same things we have done in the past, in spite of evidence or advice that suggests we might do better to do something else? Or maybe we’ve been thinking about doing one thing for a while and then something better comes along, yet we cling to what we were thinking before. It is human nature and we are all guilty of it. In physics it is called inertia. In life it is called stubbornness. In business it is called ignoring the law of sunk costs, or better yet, suicide.
Thinking along the lines of “Well, I have already spent so much time and/or resources on this, it would be a waste to shift gears now…” is okay if you’re in marriage counseling BUT IT IS NOT OKAY IN BUSINESS. You better believe if a Fortune 500 company discovers a way to make either more money with the same risk or the same money with less risk they are GONE from whatever they were doing before. Gone. As in closed the factory, auctioned off the equipment, fired the staff, done! That is how business people think. There is no touchy-feely equivocating about the past or present…
To tie this back to the original question, if you are evaluating the CarbonCopyPRO business and saying “Wouldn’t it be nice to combine this with what I am already doing or considering doing?” then you are thinking about comfort, not profit. It is lazy thinking. In your mind let go of what you are already doing unless it is either giving you everything you want or you have fairly concrete evidence that it performs better than CarbonCopyPRO (if this is the case please tell me about it). To quote the title of a well-known book on business - “what got you here won’t get you there.”
We always address this question with a question of our own, “What is the reviewer selling?”
A quick Google search reveals plenty of people running headlines like “CarbonCopyPRO Revealed!” or “CarbonCopyPRO - Do Not Join Until You Read This!!!” or “Why I Didn’t Join CCP” and so on. Feel free to read some or all of these “negative” reviews. I guarantee you 100% of them will fit into one of two catgories. 1. People who are actually endorsing CCP and are using what we call an “Expose” headline to get your attention, or 2. People who are selling a different home-based business or self-employment opportunity.
In the first case we can’t really fault those marketers and maybe we would be well-served to learn from them, after all it does get people’s attention. In the second case, these marketers are using a psychological trick to try to sell their own products. By pretending to be your unbiased “insider” with the “real scoop” on whatever you are investigating, these folks hope to gain your trust so that when they get to their pitch you have suspended the natural skepticism that they were exploiting in the first place.
That’s it, really. Every time it is one of those two scenarios. Some marketers do a better job than others in veiling their intentions but it always distills to one of those two things (usually the latter). If anyone finds a sincere case of a current or former CarbonCopyPRO member who legitimately applied themselves, who now feels aggrieved, and who is not pitching another product, please send it to us. A quick search at the Better Business Bureau shows zero complaints against CarbonCopyPRO. Click here to view the report.
First off we are glad you are asking this question. Given the internet’s reputation, asking this question is a sign of a thinking person.
That said, everyone has their own innate level of skepticism, and for some no amount of evidence is enough. But approached with an open-mind this list of facts can relieve these types of concerns. This list was actually compiled by a doctor who was at the time evaluating the CarbonCopyPRO business opportunity for himself (he later joined).
============ Reasons Why CarbonCopyPRO Is Not A Scam============
* Both CarbonCopyPRO and the company we represent have clean records according to the Better Business Bureau (BBB).
* The company has never had a substantiated complaint according to the BBB. Click here to view the report.
* Neither company has ever been investigated or sanctioned by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).
* No actions by a State Attorney General have ever been taken against either company, nor are there any pending investigations.
* Both companies are based in the United States of America.
* Our Product Partner company was incorporated in January 2005. 95% of businesses (and nearly 100% of illegitimate ones) do not pass the 3 year mark.
* The compensation model is similar to those used in the Insurance, Real Estate, and Mortgage industries. Leaders who recruit and train new professionals receive a commission when members of their team make a sale. But the largest commission goes to the person who makes the sale. You are rewarded for your hard work.
* The direct sales company we represent is a member in good standing of the Direct Sales Association, the leading trade organization for direct sales companies.
* Industry leaders such as Mike Dillard of Magnetic Sponsoring and Jeffrey Combs of Golden Mastermind Seminars are associated with CarbonCopyPRO. These are Marketing Industry leaders who have a lot to lose if one of their endorsed products is revealed as a scam.
First of all, put our response to this question in the “tough love” category. If it offends we apologize but we deal with enough chronically-broke people to have some fairly strong opinions on the subject.
Every situation is different but for almost anyone asking this question our off-the-cuff answer is no. If you have $500 to your name you probably need to spend it on rent, food, or a bus pass.
We want to be clear, there is a difference between someone who “only has $500 to spend” and someone who truly only has $500. Many people claim they only have $500 to spend but have no problem spending 10% of it on the Season 3 DVD Box Set of Lost, or whatever their distraction of the day may be. But either way, if someone is truly broke or just broke-minded he/she is probably not in a place to run this or any other business. The important thing for that person to ask themsleves is “How did I get here and where am I headed?”
For those that are simply broke-minded (you shall know them by their poor-mouthing) listen to us when we say that you need this. But not yet. First you need to detox from your fractured financial thinking, your addiction to credit, and your refusal to live within your means. Check out Dave Ramsey for more on this process.
And for those that are truly broke of course you shouldn’t buy CarbonCopyPRO! You should save your money! That is what broke people should do, save what money they can get access to and try to be strategic about what they do with it. But being broke does not mean being broken. If you are a fighter and a hard-worker you will reach a place in the future when you do accumulate some money - maybe not riches but at least a small base to build from. And you need to be mentally prepared for what you will do then. This may not be the right time to get involved in CarbonCopyPRO (by all means pay your rent first!) But when you are able to take action to ensure that your current situation does not become a cycle, CarbonCopyPRO offers more opportunity to create a real business from limited resources than any other business opportunity we have seen.
And before you call us and ask - no you cannot get started for free then pay later. This is a real business. Sorry.